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| The work table |
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| Rusty items |
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| Dyeing in progress |
On Thursday I was very lucky to attend a workshop with Alice Fox Alicefox-textiles.blogspot.com as part of the Stroud International Festival.http://www.stroudinternationaltextiles.org.uk/
It was a fantastic day, lots of chat, lots of sewing and loads learnt.
Although I have done rust dyeing before I have not done it with tea which produces greyer tones which I like. I now have pieces soaking in tea in my studio, I will publish the results next week.
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| My work next to purple scissors |
What fun - I tried to get on to the workshops but they were full !
ReplyDeleteI looks forward to seeing how you got on!
Hi Gill, thanks for your comment, sorry you didn't manage to get a place on the workshop, it was good. I have tried to look at your blog but am not having any success in finding you.
DeleteHi Debbie,
ReplyDeleteOh you lucky thing! I love Alice's "Tide Marks" but am wondering about the archival quality in using rust... will it continue eat the cloth and/or paper forever? and does that apply to using an iron mordant in the dye pot as well? I read this article about the iron mordants used for dying black in the early 20th century and it does continue to eat cloth over time...
http://circavintageclothing.com.au/2011/09/02/the-perils-of-vintage-iron-mordant/
this is OK in some work where the erosion is intentional but could be worry in the long term especially if the work is sold.
Hi Mo,
DeleteYes it was a great day but this is something that worries me also. Its not a question that I asked but got the impression that Alice felt that as long as something rusted didn't get wet that it was ok.
I read somewhere that you need to wash rust dyed fabric in something, can't remember what, perhaps washing soda? every year to stop the rust eating the fabric. Obviously not always practical so I don't really have an answer but the possibility has put me off using rust very often. Thank goodness for India and eco prints.
Jude has mentioned that rust can make fabric brittle, there is a lot of questionable practices being used today amongst the textile and mixed media artists.
Deletethanks for posting this - i'm going on a course with alice in august and this gives me a glimpse of what to expect ....... just what i am hoping for, goody!
ReplyDeletei've come across concerns about iron/rust dyeing before - all cloth ages, changes and eventually decomposes, colouring processes mostly speed up this process to some degree - even eco-dyed cloth changes over years so a lot depends on how long you expect the cltoh to last - if you regard this as a natural process like trees bearing buds, green leaves then shedding them in a blaze of colour it might be more acceptable, especially as the process is much slower with cloth, more like our own graceful ageing!!! besides anyone buying a textile piece and expecting it to last forever is only trying to fool themselves
I do like to think that our work will still be around in a few hundred years especially when 100's of hours have been invested in a piece like Jude's Magic Feather Cloth. If cared for well textiles can last for centuries ie some of the old Japapnese boro that is so popular at the moment.
DeleteI would also like to think that our work will still be around for a long time such as medieval tapestries and cloth that has been found from viking times and earlier. After all if you buy a painting you don't expect it to disintegrate in a 100 years time.
DeleteWearable cloth is obviously going to suffer more from being constantly worn and washed.
This won't stop me from working sometimes with rusted cloth; I love the marks it leaves and I am doing another course with Alice next year hopefully involving printing as well. Maybe work sold that has been rusted should say it may erode over time, but then again what sort of time period are we talking about, hopefully longer than our own. Thank you both for your interesting comments.
Hi Debbie
ReplyDeleteUsing rust to dye and print with will change the nature of the fabric. Heavily rusted fabrics become brittle and difficult to stitch into, taking on some of the metallic qualities of the rusty metal they have been in contact with. Anyone using heavily rusted marks should neutralise their fabrics in washing soda or baking soda, but even if you do this the fibres will have been weakened. I find that using tea with rust gives subtle and gentle marks and tones. These greys are developing because the tannins in the tea are reacting with the iron (effectively a mordant) and are dyeing the cloth or paper. My pieces are not necessarily expected to be archival for hundreds of years. I don't need to wash my items as I'm not wearing them and the folds and ripples that are formed during the wrapping and dyeing process are as much part of the piece as the marks on the cloth. I can get away with this because I'm not using vinegar. There is a very experimental nature to these techniques and this is what excites me: if it changes over time that isn't a problem for me, although I always advise people not to hang artwork in direct sunlight as this will affect many things, even considered 'archival'. The definition of archival seems to be a bit of a moveable feast anyway! If I sell things I makes sure people are aware of the possibilities for change. Hope that helps... Alice
(by the way the link to my blog should be :http://www.alicefox.co.uk
Thanks Alice for your comments I hope they will clear up people's misgivings about using rust.
DeleteSorry for getting you blog link wrong. I didn't manage to get to Prism and hope it went well, there have been some very favourable comments on other blogs about the exhibition.
Ferric oxide (red rust) is corrosive and no amount of baking soda will counteract its effects on cloth or paper in the long term.
ReplyDeleteTea is acidic, although less so than vinegar. In fact most leaf matter is acidic. On the other hand black rust, ferrous oxide , which is a reduced form of ferric oxide, is not only useful as a darkening mordant, it has even been shown to help preserve cloth. For further enlightenment read texts about archaeological finds that were discovered "in the presence of metals"
Thank you India for your comments and for visiting my blog. I am amazed at the conversations my entry has led to especially on Mo's blog who has many more followers than I, it certainly seems to be a controversial issue.
DeleteThanks for your clarity India. It can be difficult for people to sort their way through all the different snippets of information and opinion available. The baking soda thing is an example of this - not something I've tried as I mainly use tea in my work, but I've read about it and people ask about the need for 'neutralising', therefore I've mentioned it in classes as something that I'm aware others do. Interesting that the article mentioned further up about iron mordanted fabrics goes against the archaeological info.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Deleteremember though that "iron mordanted" traditioanlly implies the fabric has been treated with Ferrous sulphate [a corrosive and toxic salt]. it makes fibres brittle and can give you a particularly nasty form of anaemia when absorbed through the skin. the pure metal iron, on the other hand, does act as a preservative. copper is even better at preserving cloth. but it must be the pure metal and [in addition] in the absence of oxygen. ie under water in a slightly acidic environment
ReplyDelete